I recently posted this on a bulletin and had a lot of discussion ensue as a result! I've included all parlay following the article...makes for a good read!

While their numbers are rapidly growing, vegetarians are still a minority, and it is not unusual to be confronted with a meat-eater who not only protects his own right to eat flesh, but argues aggressively that vegetarians should join him in his carnivorous diet. Carnivores may regard non meat-eaters as a strange lot who munch on "rabbit food," and whose diet doesn't have the substance to make them strong, productive human beings. The following presentation is designed to turn the tables on such discussions by showing the devastating effects of meat-eating both on individuals and on our planet. It is based on a richly informative poster entitled, "How to win an argument with a meat-eater," published by Earthsave, an organization based in Felton, California, giving facts from Pulitzer Prize nominee John Robbins' book Diet for a New America. Below are eight separate arguments against meat-eating and in favor of a vegetarian diet.

1. The Hunger Argument against meat-eating Much of the world's massive hunger problems could be solved by the reduction or elimination of meat-eating. The reasons: 1) livestock pasture needs cut drastically into land which could otherwise be used to grow food; 2) vast quantities of food which could feed humans is fed to livestock raised to produce meat.

This year alone, twenty million people worldwide will die as a result of malnutrition. One child dies of malnutrition every 2.3 seconds. One hundred million people could be adequately fed using the land freed if Americans reduced their intake of meat by a mere 10%.

Twenty percent of the corn grown in the U.S. is eaten by people. Eighty percent of the corn and 95% of the oats grown in the U.S. is eaten by livestock. The percentage of protein wasted by cycling grain through livestock is calculated by experts as 90%.

One acre of land can produce 40,000 pounds of potatoes, or 250 pounds of beef. Fifty-six percent of all U.S. farmland is devoted to beef production, and to produce each pound of beef requires 16 pounds of edible grain and soybeans, which could be used to feed the hungry.

2. The Environmental Argument against meat-eating Many of the world's massive environmental problems could be solved by the reduction or elimination of meat-eating, including global warming, loss of topsoil, loss of rain forests and species extinction.

The temperature of the earth is rising. This global warming, known as "the greenhouse effect," results primarily from carbon dioxide emissions from burning fossil fuels, such as oil and natural gas. Three times more fossil fuels must be burned to produce a meat-centered diet than for a meat-free diet. If people stopped eating meat, the threat of higher world temperatures would be vastly diminished.

Trees, and especially the old-growth forests, are essential to the survival of the planet. Their destruction is a major cause of global warming and top soil loss. Both of these effects lead to diminished food production. Meat-eating is the number one driving force for the destruction of these forests. Two-hundred and sixty million acres of U.S. forest land has been cleared for cropland to produce the meat-centered diet. Fifty-five square feet of tropical rain forest is consumed to produce every quarter-pound of rain forest beef. An alarming 75% of all U.S. topsoil has been lost to date. Eighty-five percent of this loss is directly related to livestock raising.

Another devastating result of deforestation is the loss of plant and animal species. Each year 1,000 species are eliminated due to destruction of tropical rain forests for meat grazing and other uses. The rate is growing yearly.

To keep up with U.S. consumption, 300 million pounds of meat are imported annually from Central and South America. This economic incentive impels these nations to cut down their forests to make more pasture land. The short-term gain ignores the long-term, irreparable harm to the earth's ecosystem. In effect these countries are being drained of their resources to put meat on the table of Americans while 75% of all Central American children under the age of five are undernourished.

3. The Cancer Argument against meat-eating Those who eat flesh are far more likely to contract cancer than those following a vegetarian diet.

The risk of contracting breast cancer is 3.8 times greater for women who eat meat daily compared to less than once a week; 2.8 times greater for women who eat eggs daily compared to once a week; and 3.25 greater for women who eat butter and cheese 2 to 4 times a week as compared to once a week.

The risk of fatal ovarian cancer is three times greater for women who eat eggs 3 or more times a week as compared with less than once a week.

The risk of fatal prostate cancer is 3.6 times greater for men who consume meat, cheese, eggs and milk daily as compared with sparingly or not at all.

4. The Cholesterol Argument against meat-eating Here are facts showing that: 1) U.S. physicians are not sufficiently trained in the importance of the relation of diet to health; 2) meat-eaters ingest excessive amounts of cholesterol, making them dangerously susceptible to heart attacks.

It is strange, but true that U.S. physicians are as a rule ill-educated in the single most important factor of health, namely diet and nutrition. Of the 125 medical schools in the U.S., only 30 require their students to take a course in nutrition. The average nutrition training received by the average U.S. physician during four years in school is only 2.5 hours. Thus doctors in the U.S. are ill-equipped to advise their patients in minimizing foods, such as meat, that contain excessive amounts of cholesterol and are known causes of heart attack.

Heart attack is the most common cause of death in the U.S., killing one person every 45 seconds. The male meat-eater's risk of death from heart attack is 50%. The risk to men who eats no meat is 15%. Reducing one's consumption of meat, dairy and eggs by 10% reduces the risk of heart attack by 10%. Completely eliminating these products from one's diet reduces the risk of heart attack by 90%.

The average cholesterol consumption of a meat-centered diet is 210 milligrams per day. The chance of dying from heart disease if you are male and your blood cholesterol is 210 milligrams daily is greater than 50%.

5. The Natural Resources Argument against meat-eating The world's natural resources are being rapidly depleted as a result of meat-eating.

Raising livestock for their meat is a very inefficient way of generating food. Pound for pound, far more resources must be expended to produce meat than to produce grains, fruits and vegetables. For example, more than half of all water used for all purposes in the U.S. is consumed in livestock production. The amount of water used in production of the average cow is sufficient to float a destroyer (a large naval ship). While 25 gallons of water are needed to produce a pound of wheat, 5,000 gallons are needed to produce a pound of California beef. That same 5,000 gallons of water can produce 200 pounds of wheat. If this water cost were not subsidized by the government, the cheapest hamburger meat would cost more than $35 per pound.

Meat-eating is devouring oil reserves at an alarming rate. It takes nearly 78 calories of fossil fuel (oil, natural gas, etc.) energy to produce one calory of beef protein and only 2 calories of fossil fuel energy to produce one calory of soybean. If every human ate a meat-centered diet, the world's known oil reserves would last a mere 13 years. They would last 260 years if humans stopped eating meat altogether. That is 20 times longer, giving humanity ample time to develop alternative energy sources.

Thirty-three percent of all raw materials (base products of farming, forestry and mining, including fossil fuels) consumed by the U.S. are devoted to the production of livestock, as compared with 2% to produce a complete vegetarian diet.

6. The Antibiotic Argument against meat-eating Here are facts showing the dangers of eating meat because of the large amounts of antibiotics fed to livestock to control staphylococci (commonly called staph infections), which are becoming immune to these drugs at an alarming rate.

The animals that are being raised for meat in the United States are diseased. The livestock industry attempts to control this disease by feeding the animals antibiotics. Huge quantities of drugs go for this purpose. Of all antibiotics used in the U.S., 55% are fed to livestock.

But this is only partially effective because the bacteria that cause disease are becoming immune to the antibiotics. The percentage of staphylococci infections resistant to penicillin, for example, has grown from 13% in 1960 to 91% in 1988. These antibiotics and-or the bacteria they are intended to destroy reside in the meat that goes to market.

It is not healthy for humans to consume this meat. The response of the European Economic Community to the routine feeding of antibiotics to U.S. livestock was to ban the importation of U.S. meat. European buyers do not want to expose consumers to this serious health hazard. By comparison, U.S. meat and pharmaceutical industries gave their full and complete support to the routine feeding of antibiotics to livestock, turning a blind eye to the threat of disease to the consumer.

7. The Pesticide Argument against meat-eating Unknown to most meat-eaters, U.S.-produced meat contains dangerously high quantities of deadly pesticides.

The common belief is that the U.S. Department of Agriculture protects consumers' health through regular and thorough meat inspection. In reality, fewer than one out of every 250,000 slaughtered animals is tested for toxic chemical residues.

That these chemicals are indeed ingested by the meat-eater is proven by the following facts:

A. Ninety-nine percent of U.S. mother's milk contains significant levels of DDT. In stark contrast, only 8% of U.S. vegetarian mother's milk containing significant levels of DDT. This shows that the primary source of DDT is the meat ingested by the mothers.

B. Contamination of breast milk due to chlorinated hydrocarbon pesticides in animal products found in meat-eating mothers versus non meat-eating mothers is 35 times higher.

C. The amount of the pesticide Dieldrin ingested by the average breast-fed American infant is 9 times the permissible level.

8. The Ethical Argument against meat-eating Many of those who have adopted a vegetarian diet have done so because of the ethical argument, either from reading about or personally experiencing what goes on daily at any one of the thousands of slaughterhouses in the U.S. and other countries, where animals suffer the cruel process of forced confinement, manipulation and violent death. Their pain and terror is beyond calculation.

The slaughterhouse is the final stop for animals raised for their flesh. These ghastly places, while little known to most meat-eaters, process enormous numbers of animals each years. In the U.S. alone, 660,000 animals are killed for meat every hour. A surprising quantity of meat is consumed by the meat-eater. The average per capita consumption of meat in the U.S., Canada and Australia is 200 pounds per year! The average American consumes in a 72-year lifetime approximately 11 cattle, 3 lambs and sheep, 23 hogs, 45 turkeys, 1,100 chickens and 862 pounds of fish! Bon appetite!

People who come in contact with slaughterhouses cannot help but be affected by what they see and hear. Those living nearby must daily experience the screams of terror and anger of the animals led to slaughter. Those working inside must also see and participate in the crimes of mayhem and murder. Most who choose this line of work are not on the job for long. Of all occupations in the U.S., slaughterhouse worker has the highest turnover rate. It also has the highest rate of on-the-job injury.

Erica Spracklin (University of Saskatchewan) wrote
at 8:50am on January 23rd, 2008
Thanks for this Agni! Great post! Very succinct and to the point.

Zack Mosley (Vancouver, BC) wrote
at 10:49am on January 23rd, 2008
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/972951/posts

Autumn Mazzitelli (Vancouver, BC) wrote
at 11:43am on January 23rd, 2008
Okay.
Good points...

Cannot argue with much of whats written...but what about all that cancer talk...? I NEVER eat meat when I eat out, unless I know it's organic...I just won't eat out...I do however eat a dish which contains organic meat about once a week. And when it is NOT organic meat on my table, it's because I went out hunting with Warren to put food on my table. I have never heard that all meat gives you a higher chance of getting cancer...

And the point about meat production (really just human selfishness) and people on earth going without food... I totally agree with you!! But meat eating is not the problem, it is the way in which people who are a part this consumer society act. Most people do not question where their meat comes from, they just eat, act and shop without thinking. It's easier.

But what about those of us who live in the country and try to live as close to the land as we can. I try to live (much as I can) as if this society does not exist. By the time my baby is born I want a garden growing again so that I can eat from the land, we don't want our child growing up thinking that s/he can just go to a store forever, and I don't want my baby thinking that s/he has to move to where s/he can grow soy or chickpeas in a large quantity to survive. I want to be able to survive HERE. Where I call home, in the mountains of the Kootenays. I could not do this without hunting. Meat eating is not bad, well, it has has become that way, but it never used to be. It is society that is wrong. I won't be able to buy tofu at the store forever, and I react badly to it anyway. There is NO ONE WAY TO LIVE LIFE, there are many paths of righteousness. Killing an animal for food is not easy. It is not for everyone. Much respect to people of all walks of life. Vegetarians especially.

Agni Georgina Ng wrote
at 2:31pm on January 23rd, 2008
Hey Autumn, peace to you sister, I agree with much of what you have said...it is definitely true that many people do not think about what they are eating anymore; they have become detached and buy without thinking, because they are in the habit, because it is convenient and easy, and because they are accustomed to the taste of meat and the fact that is very socially acceptable to be a carnivore. As popular as the vegetarian movement as becoming (it is now a trend and some people even will use this as an excuse not to join!), we are still a minority.

I am mostly concerned about ahimsa, sanskrit for non-violence. Restraining from hurting any being physically, emotionally, spiritually. I believe that on a certain level of spiritual path this means letting go of our attachment to meat. I agree that this is not for everyone, each person has his or her own method of connecting to the divine and if you are living life in tune with your purpose in this incarnation, cultivating selflessness and giving to others, then this is good! There are no absolutes, I definitely feel that each person is exactly where he or she needs to be in life in order to learn valuable lessons and enhance his or her spiritual growth. For me, this means abstinence from meat, for another human perhaps not. What is good for me is not necessarily good for you and vice versa!

Humans have lived off of meat since the beginning of our existence: some traditions were even very conscious and prayed to the animal's spirit before they killed of and ate it. Many first nations tribes used all parts of the bison and took only what they needed to survive. I do however, believe that when we eat meat, fish, fowl and eggs, we absorb the vibration of the instinctive creatures into our nerve system and the fear they experienced when they were killed. This chemically alters our consciousness and amplifies our lower nature, which is prone to fear, anger, jealousy, confusion, resentment + the like.

Poignant scriptural citations counsel against eating meat. The Yajur Veda (36.18) calls for kindliness toward all creatures living on the Earth, in the air and in the water. The Tirukural, a 2,200-year-old masterpiece of ethics, states 'when a man realizes that meat is the butchered flesh of another creature, he will abstain from eating it' (257). The Manu Dharma Shastras state, 'having well considered the origin of flesh and the cruelty of fettering and slaying corporeal beings, let one entirely abstain from eating flesh' and 'when the diet is pure, the mind and heart are pure.' Some food for thought!

Watson Machiavelli (University of Saskatchewan) wrote
at 4:10pm on January 23rd, 2008
Keep eating your leaves and moss people. Keep nice and healthy and strong too, because if and when the standard meats ever runs out who do you think the carnivores will turn on next?

The closest Vegetarian. IE: You (pl.)

I myself will begin hunting you all with great ferocity, and applying my standard culinary skills to no doubt make all kinds of good dishes. Curry Veg, Jerk Veg, Deep Fried Veg, the list of possibilities is near infinite. Hope this hypothetical situation never occurs, for your sake.

You cannot win an argument that is contrary to how human beings have evolved. Nor can I win an argument to say that you should not be Vegetarians because we're not meant to be one or the other. That would not be Human. We're Omnivores and should have both and ensure a balance is maintained.

And a quick finisher, the coup de gras one might say, as I have been writing this I have been eating a fat ass rare stake that I've been marinating for two days. It's amazing!

Zack Mosley (Vancouver, BC) wrote
at 5:16pm on January 23rd, 2008
I don't try and tell vegetarians, vegans, or even raw foodists that their beliefs are wrong. I enjoy a lot of vegetarian cuisine, and there are times where I do feel like I've been eating too much meat and a vegetable stir fry or chick pea curry hits the spot in a more satisfying way than a steak would. I do resent vegetarians that aggressively try and convert meat eaters (I am not referring to you Agni, but as we were both employed at Capers I'm sure you're familiar with the brand of militant vegan that can wander into that establishment). Especially since, as the link I posted above points out, one will still kill millions of animals over the course of their lifetime even if they live a vegan lifestyle. Like it or not, cultivation involves mass murder of field animals and every slab of tofu you consume with an unburdened conscience was at the expense of the life of several animals. Read the article at the link I posted above for more information about this.

The only way to truly eat without killing any animals is to cultivate all of your own food by hand, and even then you'd have to be very careful and willing to accept the loss of some of your efforts due to animal interference. Since we aren't living in a feudal society anymore, this isn't really very realistic at all. I respect the choice to avoid meat for almost all of the arguments listed in your original post, but I don't like the idea that one needs to "win an argument against a meat eater", because vegetarians and vegans have blood on their hands as well. If we all just ate beef and broccoli, billions of animal lives would be spared. And besides, we wouldn't even have human civilization if some resourceful caveman somewhere down the line hadn't decided to domesticate animals and remain in one spot to tend to them. If anything, I think we need to address the barbaric ways in which we DO slaughter animals, and come up with more humane solutions in providing meat for our society.

Watson Machiavelli (University of Saskatchewan) wrote
at 6:35pm on January 23rd, 2008
I just butchered a chicken in my shower and am now cooking up hot wings.
mmmmmmmm soooooo tasty.

Miranda Greyeyes wrote
at 10:33pm on January 23rd, 2008
In the words of my son, we are meatasaurs.....haha..he's into dinosaurs.

I eat a lot of fish and chicken...beef, well, only in sauces..I do like the occasional steak and ribs...

mmmm...well for me I do like to eat my veggies, and my kids too!

I believe all living things on this earth was meant to be put into use for us to use and survive, but it's also up to us to be resourceful. To slaughter anything for waste is what gets me. There are millions of people living in poverty, and here in our own community of Saskatoon. To worry about what people eat/don't eat is really not the issue, it's about sharing what we have to help out each other to survive. So I think that it's not about "winning" an issue, it's about helping each other out to survive.

Beth Giffen (University of Saskatchewan) wrote
at 11:29pm on January 23rd, 2008
Isn't it also interesting that we need the Earth...it does not need us...without our help or interference, it would exist as it did for thousands of years before we arrived. I remain unconvinced that Earth was put here just for us to consume. I believe that along with enjoying what the Earth has to offer us, we have a responsibility to take care of the Earth- it's the only one we have - and this includes protecting the living beings on it.

Amanda Griffiths wrote
at 11:24am on January 24th, 2008
I love this it's brilliant. I totally agree with you on what u said "we absorb the vibration of the instinctive creatures into our nerve system and the fear they experienced when they were killed. "..

Varya Vinogradova wrote
at 12:11pm on January 24th, 2008
Hmmmmm.....I both agree and disagree with all the people here. Most of my concerns have already been addressed. As someone who works at a health food store I see both kinds of people often. There are vegetarians who look horrible, people who tell me that stopping animal products has given them health, others tell me that they will keep eating meat but they are buying huge amouts of digestive enzymes to be able to digest it. Then there are the ones who buy the organic meat, the so called meat snobs....the meat snobs and the vegans/vegetarians give me the impression of being healthier. A meat snob is someone who buys only meat humanely produced, and humanely killed. Of course there is nothing humane about certain killing, in the past, native tribes all over the world realised this and thanked the animals they killed.

In my opinion, the reason for all the illnesses now prevalent is that we have lost this connection. We have lost the thankfulness and are taking things for granted. Half the produce at the grocery stores is thrown out, the meat there is full of parasites, antibiotics, and bad energy because the animals were speed grown on a diet of grain and antibiotics rather than allowed to roam freely, eat grass, and have a good life of their own, or even better, taken from the wild....

If we were to be without modern means, without modern imporation, without the fruits and vegetables, the bananas (oh and by the way, all bananas are a monoculture, they have no seeds, and the original banana has been lost so eat bananas people, there will be no more left soon since the every banana is about 200 years old), the oranges....what will we do? Is it possible to be a vegan or a vegetarian in Saskatchewan winter? With no imports? Completely self sustaining? Vegetarian, yes....it is....Vegan? I am not sure about Vegan, I have doubts....

And the cancer from our butter and milk is because the butter and milk are not organic, and even so, it is processed so thoroughly that is it no longer milk even if organic. any bacterial culture in our yogurt is not natural, it is introdued artificially, all the good vitamins, minerals and antibodies that milk by rule contains are killed with processing and to increase the shelf life from 3 days (the way it should be) to a month, all the milk in the store is treated with fromaldehyde or derivatives thereof. That is why mild goes rancid rather than sour, if it was normal we will have buttermilk every time milk goes bad. Buttermilk at the store is made by introducing an acid to curdle it, since nothing else would. Our cottage cheese at the store, is made in this way also...butter would be OK except all radicals collect in fat, so eating butter we are eating all the pesticides the cow ever ate.

Same with fatty meat. Same with any meat...so called fresh meat is injected with preservatives out of a thousand needles at the factories and processing plants, preservatives and dye on top of being full of antibiotics and deadly staph bacteria (there is an epidemic of staph infections right now, antibiotic resistant, the toll is higher in NA than that of Aids but I digress)....I have switched to coconut oil myself, I don't like butter any more.....The bad thing is, everything at the regular grocery store, down to the baking, has been made with the bad oil......people, coconut oil is the way to go...buy oil at the health food store, and put it in the fridge (for a reason).

If someone is vegan for reasons of personal choice or religion or health, peace to them...I believe in all three....Meat is addictive, I admit....then some people need their protein in a certain form and that's that. But I do believe firmly, that all people should be educated about the nature of modern food....how big company potato chips are made with a petroleum derived oil so they are calorie free....imagine how much that oild damages our bodies?

There are people out there with immense mental control, who can cleanse their bodies with their will...but those are far inbetween and so, most of us have to change our diet, eat spirulina, or go fasting....Although I have my reservations on soy....if it is possible to make people eat -less- meat, the world will be a better place. If all farms were family farms, organic farms, supportiong communities. If every city had a ring of those around it producing all the food for the city....if if if...

I abstain from agreeing with a 100% vegan or vegetarian standpoint....I do not disagree I just say that it's not for everyone. I do agree that if we are meat eaters, we should be meat snobs and have meat account for only 10% of our diet if not less. And those of us, who are able can go ahead and become complete herbivores if they can afford to.

~peace out~

James Foyle (Vancouver, BC) wrote
at 1:27pm on January 24th, 2008
Should the whole world become vegetarian? Can a human be an innocent meat eater? Can there be love between an animal and its eater? I personally don't want anyone to eat me, but if they're going to and I can't do anything about it then...whatever. I'm not going to get mad or upset, I'll still love them. If I was however an animal I would never even consider any of these questions or ideas and I couldn't care less if someone ate me. The animals that most people eat are actually incapable of brain functions like these, kind of like a vegetable.

Just my two cents! when it comes down to it I would much rather prefer a vegetarian lifestyle and not have to worry about karma and health and stuff like that.

love

Agni Georgina Ng wrote
at 5:17pm on January 24th, 2008
Man this is a hot topic! Good article Zach, definitely sweet to get that viewpoint out there. I absolutely agree with you that it is not about "winning" an argument at all, this is just a healthy debate to generate awareness and get people to think about the consequences of their actions/how simple everyday habits affect those around us...I especially liked response #47, the last response to that article that claims that the entire article is rather absurb because although it is partially true that more animals die growing + harvesting plants than are killed for meat, we feed the animals we eat 10 times as much plant matter as we would eat ourselves if we just ate the plants. So, from a sustainability speaking standpoint we have to grow 10 times as much plant matter and thus kill 10X as many animals in order to eat animals over plants. Without taking into account the number of animals being fed these plants...to minimize our harm, eating plants is still preferable.

Good point beth, we do need the earth! Vegan, vegetarian, or carnivore I embrace you all and send much love straight into your hearts! Life is definitely about sharing and learning and giving selflessly to each other, people become vegetarian/vegan or just practice awareness of where their food comes from, which is what I really think this is all about. Awareness is the first step to change. When we are not following blindly and really observing our actions we can take time to decide what is beneficial for us and for the upliftment of others around us, and what is not. Acceptance, tolerance, and solidarity are beautiful principles that I am definitely down for.

+ Varya, good posts about the dairy industry, good information about the toxins from the animal collecting in butter...i use coconut oil as well...what's your reason for keeping it in the fridge...I have read that coconut oil is so heavily saturated that it will not go rancid even when left in the cupboard (sourced from Nourishing Traditions...a really good book by Sally Fallon...totally pro-meat, but if you're down for some dope nutritional information examining the longest lived societies and cultures in history, it's the best!!! i can lend you..smile). love + peace fellow brothers and sisters.

Matt Frey wrote
at 6:09pm on January 24th, 2008
I agree with most of the points in this letter, except for the fact that it labels all meat eaters as people who participate in the evil of slaughterhouses. I am a meat eater, but it is a very small part of my diet, and I eat freerange meat in which I am aware of the conditions in which the animals are kept, and the level of care they recieve. I give mad props to farmers who run small meat operations. They don't make very much money, and they treat their animals like members of the family. The slaughtering practice at these farms is very humane, much more humane than the death an animal would recieve in the wild if it became a prey item. The conditions in major commercial slaughter houses, however, are deplorable. I agree that as a society we eat way too much meat, but I would not agree that we should give up eating meat completely.

Autumn Mazzitelli (Vancouver, BC) wrote
at 7:11pm on January 24th, 2008
Hey Agni, thank you for posting this topic...something interesting happened when I spoke with my midwife yesterday...I am apparently very anemic, I have been feeling really unwell...I was told that (perhaps because of my blood type 'O') I am not absorbing the protein or iron in my food, or perhaps because my blood volume has increased with pregnancy.

I was told to eat RED meat 4 or 5 times a week...even the thought of that made me feel sick. That is too much for me and the cost of that much organic meat would be insane!!...so I went and bought some Floradex (however you spell it) iron supplement...

Whatever would I do living in the Kootenays... if this system crashed?? (which I hope it does)...I guess I'd have to hunt deer...

Agni Georgina Ng wrote
at 1:11am on January 25th, 2008
Hey sister Autumn, I too was anemic five years ago when i first became vegan...after a year I felt ill and my doctor/acupuncturist heavily advised me to eat liver + red meat etcetera...for a while I did eat some seafood and fish, then switched back to vegetarian and stayed veggie for 3 years or so, then started eating fish again for some reason...the last seafood I had was in paris in 2006...I've only been vegan again since june 2007 when I observed the way animals were treated in china...as you know I had some pretty rank stress and mental blocks with food for a while, but now my acupuncturist says i am really healthy and I am about 95% vegan (I eat things people give me if they don't know I'm vegan...I don't want to make people feel they have to accomodate!)...Floradex is really rad...I'm sure you know this but dark green leafy veggies (collards/kale/spinach) + lentils/beans + blackstrap molasses + potatoes with the skin + prune juice are all really good sources! love + peace!

Autumn Mazzitelli (Vancouver, BC) wrote
at 10:03am on January 25th, 2008
ugh. LIVER?? Why would....ugh, my ultra sensitive pregnant stomach doesn't like any red meat...of all things...liver!!??

I couldn't, even if I wasn't pregnant!!

All I want is sushi, my body begs for cool rice and raw veggies...and so I have been eating some fish. I feel so much better...

It's interesting being pregnant, you just go 'off' certain things...in the first month I didn't like many kinds of green foods, especially salad, which is usually my favourite! All I could eat was lightly steamed broccoli...and then I realized that I had no cooked meat in such a long time...I couldn't stand the sight, smell or taste.

It is so amazing when you give yourself over to another being. They're so smart and they tell you EXACTLY what they want...

Agni Georgina Ng wrote
at 12:16am on January 28th, 2008
Autumn, sister, love to you too! When's your baraka due? I definitely want to adopt a child, perhaps from ethiopia in the future and travel around with little nappy head on my back! smile.

It's funny, I'm vegan but not super strict, I do eat honey/bee pollen...I was, however, just reading this: http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm , a really good article on why strict vegans do avoid honey and all about how bees are treated during the process. Good to know. Sarva mangalam.

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